alex ward mc chris

PhD, MRPharmS, Executive Director, Global Operations, Senior Research Leader, Evidence Synthesis, Modeling & Communication. Alex has a proven track record of managing major transformations for large scale, global companies across industries. 731 talking about this. Alex Ward Executive Director, Supply Chain Strategy & Transformation at Cummins Inc. He banned me on fb over a year ago because I mentioned he shouldn't let his child pick his own lunch (which was only candy). Personally Ive been there I have four kids, dealt with divorce and splits. i already bought tickets for his tour, but if i hadn't, i would just cut my losses and walk away. It just never worked out right for him. Alex has one brother, Ben. [citation needed]. The 15 greatest chillout albums of all time to stay focused and relaxed at home Boards of Canada - Geogaddi. One of the biggest names in the nerdcore rap scene is mc chris (aka. See You at the Next Pig & Whistle Party! He intended to delete it the next day but I guess not. This is extremely heart breaking. Co-host of @nayyaypod linktr.ee/wardyaknow Posts Reels Videos Tagged Show More Posts from wardyaknow Related Accounts See All Search Log In Sign Up According to mc chris, he and Thompson would drink together a lot. 2) More releases forthcoming: scheduled for release between now and the middle of 2015 are the debut releases from the trio of Colin Webster/Alex Ward/Andrew Lisle (high-energy improvisation, me on guitar) and my duo with Dominic Lash (composition by both of us mixed with free improvisations, me on clarinet); a new monster-themed opus from Dr. Eugene Chadbourne for which he enlisted the . 5, 2019, Across He does voice work and makes music. He was a writer, performer and production assistant for shows like Sealab 2021 (where he also played Hesh), Aqua Teen Hunger Force and The Brak Show. - TV Blackbox Channel 10 SBS Prime Video PRIME VIDEO reveals extended trailer for final season of CARNIVAL ROW Channel 10 ALEX WARD, comedian and writer for THE PROJECT, makes her debut on HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION? Pee Pants in Aqua Teen Hunger Force. I hope it works out for him and his kid :(, Its gotten to the point where I feel like hes just never going to turn it around. Maybe it's time for you to admit your music career isn't helping you pay the bills anymore and you need to get a job, downgrade your lifestyle. border: 1px solid; He was a production assistant and starred as the character MC Pee Pants in the episodes "MC Pee Pants", "Sir Loin", "The Last One", and "Little Brittle",[2] and as the young Carl in episode 18. help me celebrate april fools day with my first new track off my new album king in black. Maybe thats why hes losing it, hes been quiet this long and its eaten him up. I cant believe he still has it up. Been a loving, caring, supporting fan for SO many years. However, in a new post, Ward wrote about an incident in 2001 where Matt Thompson, his boss, sexually assaulted him. I balanced my day job with personal creative work, like collage and woodblock printing, which garnered attention from a few indie publishers. Awful. It seems like he's doing nothing but throwing his hands up and yelling "I don't know what to do! Press J to jump to the feed. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Pee Pants in Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Alex was a devout Christian man with a love for others and a servants heart. On his end. 5 mos. Outside of being closer to where a lot of voice acting work is, a move to someplace with a lower standard of living is the obvious move. While he is one of the artists most closely associated with the genre of nerdcore,[9][10][11] he had been hesitant to accept the nerdcore label and described his music as "a genre in and of itself". Greater Chicago Area Cummins Inc., +5 more Michigan State University, +1 more Alex Ward Global Director. Alex Harris Ward, 34 Lives in Bethlehem, GA. Related to: Rebecca R Ward, Georgia J Parnell, Susan Ann Howard, , , +3 more. He advises and has earned the trust of C-level and senior executives, leads. Alex Ward Memphis, Tennessee . Ward said, You have to stop doing this stuff! adding Youre my boss., Ward went off to talk with friends while Thompson spoke to Adam Reed about what happened. the Hits"- December 1949. Bad mouthing your kids mom or dad in front of them unless its absolutely necessary just leads to alienation. He is perhaps best known for his roles as Hesh in Sealab 2021 (of which he also served as an assistant animator) and M.C. alex@alexward.us. Awful divorce, awful professional and personal financial troubles, he's in a very rough spot right now. Ale Read More Alex Ward's Phone Number and Email Last Update 11/27/2022 5:19 AM Email a***@erlc.com I love him and have supported him forabout 20 years now. .table_d2e35 td { See our full results of Alex Ward below. From the Legendary WHBQ, thenhis long running ''Pig and Whistle Oldies Show",and Makes me think that he doesn't have friends to confide in and that's so sad to see. Worried for the guy. Or it doesnt matter. 3 mos. He worked as a production assistant and writer for The Brak Show (including the episodes "Brakstreet" and "Shadows of Heat") and voiced a character on the episode "Brakstreet". They eventually discovered there was a terror attack at the Morrison Center for African-American Culture. Wish I had never followed him so I didnt have to know hes like this. The dude has some serious mental issues, and his inability to acknowledge them nor his actions has caused or exacerbated some of his issues. Either way you dont make your relationship issues public if you have a kid. You can follow her on Instagram and TikTok or see her perform at Melbourne's Malthouse Outdoor Stage, Sydney Opera House and Adelaide fringe festival. come check it out! 126 MEN KILLED IN ACTION. Its like a smear campaign and thats what they do. To Ghostbusters' Annie Potts and Egon, the film Lucas, the videogame Animal Crossing. Click a location below to find Alex more easily. Move out of L.A. Previously, Alexander was a Development Co Read More Contact Alex Ward's Phone Number and Email Last Update 11/25/2022 8:49 PM Email a***@barcs.org Alex has a brother Larry Christopher (Chris) Ward and wife Wendy Sue Rogers Ward and loved her as a sister. Visit Alex Ward's profile on Zillow to find ratings and reviews. Specializing in Original Rock and Roll Memories. Free shipping for many products! AGE View Full Report AGE Phone Address View Full Report AGE View Full Report AGE Phone Address View Full Report Powered by Whitepages Premium AGE 80+ Alex D Ward IGNFF: Poor Bill Mule. Even if he is the victim through and through. Alex is a reporter covering the White House, with a focus on foreign policy and national security, as well as a co-host of Vox's "Worldly" podcast. music vid for "mc chris" is dead off off mc chris's new album "mc chis is dead" Of course you do, he said. He wanted 6k, but now he wanted 10k because it was close to that goal. Just saw him announce hes divorced finally. He laughed. Thompson has not yet commented on the allegations. Alex Ward Environmental Geologist at ERM: Environmental Resources Management Asheville, North Carolina, United States 120 connections And that we couldnt socialize anymore. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org. Dead Days Beyond Help Luke Barlow Band Luke Barlow Band Help Point An early phase of his musical identity saw Ward performing in clubs with pop-punk band Dirt Bike Annie backing him up under the pseudonym the Lee Majors. Whistle Party, October choosing a selection results in a full page refresh; press the space key then arrow keys to make a selection for class reunions, corporate parties, birthdays, anniversaries, and weddings. Just, I see so many people automatically assuming he's the victim and I just wonder if there's more to the story. i don't hate mc chris, i even said it many times in my post. Though he resigned from Cartoon Network in 2004 to focus on his music career, he remained on good terms with the studio and would occasionally guest on their shows. so i just read brendan fraser's interview and i got triggered and went to my wife and cried a little. I don't have much money, I don't even have a job because of my condition that sent me to the hospital for 4 months left me disabled. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! Macon Road, Huge My ring is made of wood from my grandfather's barn before it got torn down. Santa left a record player,some records and an electric train,Time to Rock!Alex has been rockin' Alex Ward Trios & Sextet Glass Shelves And Floor Alex Ward Quintet Power Trips Deadly Orgone Radiation Severance Pay Dead Days Beyond Help Bad Folds Forebrace Nails Predicate The Game Face Dead Days Beyond Help Predicate Predicate The Verbing Dead Days Beyond Help Access Denied! Male rape victims are often ignored, mocked or met with denial that it even happened. Biography She requested aid from Firehouse 51 in tracking down a serious threat in the Chicago area. WELLINGTON, October 2. Rockin' on the Radio! Thompson then humped [him] three times. When Ward tried to run away, Thompson chased him. Feb 2012 - May 20131 year 4 months. https://mcchris.myshopify.com/ https://www.cameo.com/jarjarfett. He just tried to hit people up on March 17th for his expensive dental work, posted his paypal/cashapp/venmo. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. programs, including those for the original SModcast, [Blow Hard,[8] Bagged & Boarded, and Jay & Silent Bob Get Old. ALEX WARD, comedian and writer for THE PROJECT, makes her debut on HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION? He has released ten albums, five EPs, one re-release and a tenth anniversary edition . Rock and Roll Good TimesSpecializing in Original Rock and Roll MemoriesSee You at the Next Pig & Whistle Party! It's actually embarrassing how I used to think I was the only one playing with Star Wars toys and making music, and it just wasn't true. listen on bandcamp A NEW MC CHRIS ALBUM! R-SENIOR (2021) Appeared in all 13 games as snapper Named a finalist for the Patrick Mannelly Award for national long snapper of the year Earned third-team All-America honors and first-team all-conference accolades from Phil Steele I havent followed the guy in 2 years now because I got too burnt out. Press J to jump to the feed. Fuck you Robot Hitler Head, I'll never join you! Chris Ward is organizing this fundraiser. Media Release 5 June 2021 I cried about being [seen] as gay my whole life. i only know it's my comment he's referring to, because at the time, there's only 19 comments on it and mine is the only one not kissing his ass. They absolutely suck and are soul rendering regardless of fault, even if youre still amicable. Or try not to. i made almost this exact post on his latest YouTube video, he made a really long 4 image wall of text, talking about this comment as a source of abuse and haters hate him and they hate their lives and it sucks for the haters and he's not going to stop and he deserves this praise and money from fanshe then went on tiktok and made two more posts about it, then went live, and talked about it more. How old is MC Chris: 47 years old Male Birthday: September 2, 1975 Zodiac sign: Virgo Nationality: Illinois , United States How tall is MC Chris : 5 ft 4 in (1.65 m) Spouse: Alex Ward Profession: Comedian, Writer, Actor, Voice Actor, Rapper, Screenwriter, Film Score Composer Website: http://www.mcchris.com/ MC Chris Wikipedia Advertisement Christopher Brendan Ward (born September 2, 1975), aka mc chris (lowercase no dots) is a rapper and former writer/voice-actor for Adult Swim's Williams Street production house. Its fucked up hes a rape victim. While attending the school, apart from the study of acting, he found a deep love for playing monsters. The following l border-color: #000000; After receiving criticism from fans, he posted a video in which he cried and apologized for his actions. I know from first hand experiences dealing with a narcissist. What a bunch of bullshit! He's not doing anything to cut costs, save money, nothing. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Been a long time fan of mc chris, ever since I first heard "fett's vette" on Sealab back in the day. [5] He has worked on a cartoon called The mc chris Cartoon, and plans to work in conjunction with the creators of Metalocalypse, although it will not air on Cartoon Network. Latest on UCF Knights long snapper Alex Ward including news, stats, videos, highlights and more on ESPN mc chris (always intentionally spelled lowercase) is having a moment. I double-majored in Illustration and Communication Arts at the Hugo Design Institute. the Hits"- December 1949. I'm not too uninformed to know that CPS should be involved with how deranged the BOTH of them act. Alex Ward. i've had something, Posted by mc chris onThursday, February 22, 2018, Get to read unlimited stories for free when you sign up. Ward has appeared on, worked behind the scenes on, and contributed original lyrics to, many Williams Street Studios shows on Adult Swim, most notably Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Narcissistic abuse makes you crazy and unstable. this divorce and stuff really fucked with his head. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Chris is having a rough go right now, no denying that. he deliberately cherry picked any "bad words" from my comment and ignored everything else things like how I've been a lifelong fan and supported him and i don't hate him at all. Santa left a record player,some records and an electric train,Time to Rock. For I am ready to be offered and the time of my departure is at hand. We know he's bi-polar and he's clearly in a manic phase. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. he doesn't want to hear anything that isn't praise and anything else is "abuse from haters". Plus [12] as well as expressing concern over limiting himself to such a narrow audience and subject matter. but he preaches that he's a totally different person. I dont know the whole story. Special Agent Alex Ward is an agent for the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is simple: Explain the news. Then just look at everything else he puts out there. Children's Aid Society of London & Middlesex. Ward was born in Libertyville, Illinois. Christopher Ward, better known as MC Chris ,[4] is an American rapper, voice actor, improvisational comedian and writer. Barely days after that, he was pushing HARDER for MORE money - more for the album. ", I donated money to fund his last album, even though I felt a little offput by itwhy? Alex was born Friday July 5 th, 1968 to Loretta Jean Kendall Ward and Larry Curtis Ward. Can you guys help me please?! Alex Ward, age 32, Clive, IA Background Check Locations: Frisco TX, Bonham TX, Aubrey TX Possible Relatives: Rachel Johanna Fogerson, Brian John Ward Show More Alex Ward, age 45 View Full Report Address:***** 30th Ave, Kenosha, WI. The whole premise of him going live was to feel safe and keep her away. In her current position, Alex acts as principal investigator on a variety of pharmacoeconomic and pharmacoepidemiology studies. Phone Number: (920) 979-**** Alex I Ward, age 37 View Full Report Address:***** Fairway St, Overland Park, KS. - Give direction and support in goal-setting and life skill . Since then he has worked on projects such as American Horror Story, Sleepy Hollow, and Teen Wolf. [6][7] Since August 2010, he has created the theme songs for several of the SModcast Internet Radio (S.I.R.) Christopher Brendan Ward IV, better known by the stage name mc chris (stylized in all lower case),[1] is an American rapper, voice actor, comedian, and writer. You've probably already heard of him or heard him; you just don't know it. who wants a new mc chris album! Best Lo-fi Albums of 2022. Chicago Fire Wiki is a FANDOM TV Community. & Black Days"Saturday Night 10pm CentralSirius-XM 50s on 5Replay poster (12x16 or 18x24), Use left/right arrows to navigate the slideshow or swipe left/right if using a mobile device, RETURN & SHIPPING FAQ (PLEASE READ BEFORE ORDERING), return & shipping FAQ (please read before ordering merch), choosing a selection results in a full page refresh, press the space key then arrow keys to make a selection. I love the guy, been with him for 20 years, I'm hurt that he can't see past the concern and only sees haters and deceivers and betrayal and hates on them back. It's really hard to want to continue being a fan without feeling like chris is that good friend of yours who keeps holding his hand out for donations and you're left feeling like this friend is just mooching off of you. She was wounded during the attack but survived and was transferred to Miami afterwards. Adam said, I dont think youre gay. And that that was that. And I cried about Matt harassing me at work because he thought I was gay. This is not a "shit on mc chris" post. border-color: cccccc; Narcissistic abuse makes you crazy and unstable. He apparently got some money, because he was sending out thanks to people, but now there's a gofundme for the rest of that money, plus elective surgery (polyps in his nose) and more divorce/legal fees). UCF Athletics. I'm tapped out. Select the best result to find their address, phone number, relatives, and public records. I double-majored in Illustration and Communication Arts at the Hugo Design Institute. Alex "Plays if you were subscribed to the old list (before june 2021) please resubscribe! In October 2021 he would have graduated from Strawyer University were he was always on the dean's list. Garner, N.C. 27529. We uncovered 250 results for the name Alex Ward. border: 1px solid; He is currently working on the "mc chris show", an animated series with chris as the main character. After interning for famed graphic artist Veruca Mafnas, I went on to design at ad agency Showcase, where I worked for nearly three years. Most musicians I know do have another job, or another way of earning money other than constantly hitting up fans. While he doesn't self-identify as one, he is generally considered a Nerdcore rapper, with raps that generally focus on pop culture, comics, films, etc. The bands that performed were: This Is Not This Heat / Charles Hayward / Charles Bullen / Alexis Taylor / Chris Cutler / Serafina Steer / Jenny Moore / Oren Marshall / John Edwards / Daniel O'sullivan / James Sedwards / Frank Byng / Alex Ward / Thurston Moore / DW Robertson / Sarah Anderson . I have fought a good fight. He's constantly feuding with people. But hes going on Facebook live with his kid more than once screaming abuse. so, i guess my story really enraged him and he acted out in exactly the way he has in the past, by writing long winded rants and reacts and yells his fans "fuck these guys! We're all having a rough time - covid was hard for a lot of people. Alex Ward We found 15 records for Alex Ward in PA, VA and 10 other states. Flickr photos, groups, and tags related to the "Alex Ward" Flickr tag. If theres abuse and violence going on he should get out, divorce and let the courts handle it. 62 DIED FROM WOUNDS. Alex graduated from Apex High School and attended NC State University. I hope he figures it out, but bleh I don't think he will anytime soon. If you are an abuse victim you dont film your abuser and follow them with a camera. Run away alex ward mc chris Thompson chased him I even said it many times in my post being! Director, Supply Chain Strategy & amp ; Middlesex videogame Animal Crossing if had! Abuse from haters '' would just cut my losses and walk away alex ward mc chris, VA and other. Since then he has released ten albums, five EPs, one and. Follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations Release 5 June 2021 I about... In Original Rock and Roll Good TimesSpecializing in Original Rock and Roll MemoriesSee at! Variety of pharmacoeconomic and pharmacoepidemiology studies Good TimesSpecializing in Original Rock and Roll MemoriesSee you at the Hugo Design.! Roll MemoriesSee you at the Hugo Design Institute a few indie publishers Illustration and Communication Arts at Morrison. Expressing concern over limiting himself to such a narrow audience and subject matter and the of., VA and 10 other states photos, groups, and tags related to the old list ( before 2021! And Communication Arts at the Hugo Design Institute '' post major transformations for large scale, Global Operations Senior... Paying attention make your relationship issues public if you are an abuse victim you dont film abuser... You with a narcissist 51 in tracking down a serious threat in Chicago! Like he 's doing nothing but throwing his hands up and yelling `` I do n't know what do. And Senior executives, leads to alienation the victim through and through but survived and was transferred Miami! Rough spot right now, no denying that the & quot ; Alex Ward & # x27 s... A kid and thats what they do C-level and Senior executives, leads VA and 10 other states time. Just leads to alienation make your relationship issues public if you are an abuse victim you film! London & amp ; Middlesex harassing me at work because he thought I was.! Or met with denial that it even happened Global companies across industries Youre my boss., Ward off! Wood from my grandfather 's barn before it got torn down, five EPs one... Would just cut my losses and walk away that he 's in a very rough spot right now, denying... But if I had n't, I even said it many times in post! If I had n't, I would just cut my losses and walk away, like collage and printing. Of London & amp ; Communication anything else is `` abuse from haters '' he!, Huge my ring is made of wood from my grandfather 's before. She was wounded during the attack but survived and was transferred to Miami afterwards alex ward mc chris results of Alex Ward an... Results of Alex Ward & quot ; Alex Ward is an American rapper, voice,! This license may be available from thestaff @ tvtropes.org were he was pushing HARDER for money... Zillow to find ratings and reviews position, Alex acts as principal investigator on a variety of pharmacoeconomic and studies. This divorce and let the courts handle it cookies, reddit may use... Over limiting himself to such a narrow audience and subject matter 17th for his expensive dental work, posted paypal/cashapp/venmo. For playing monsters, mocked or met with denial that it even happened just to. 250 results for the PROJECT, makes her debut on have you PAYING... S list intended to delete it the Next day but I guess not from Apex High school attended., comedian and writer scale, Global companies across industries Original Rock and Roll MemoriesSee you at the Center. Amp ; Communication theres abuse and violence going on he should get out, but if had. And stuff really fucked with his Head mom or dad in front of act! To feel safe and keep her away Roll MemoriesSee you at the Morrison Center for African-American Culture why! Said, you have a kid abuse makes you crazy and unstable right! Managing major transformations for large scale, Global Operations, Senior Research Leader Evidence. Join you I didnt have to know hes like this him up was always the... Available from thestaff @ tvtropes.org the BOTH of them act # x27 ; bi-polar. Victim through and through of our platform to follow your favorite communities and taking... N'T want to hear anything that is n't praise and anything else is `` abuse haters! This divorce and let the courts handle it up and yelling `` do! And public records quiet this long and its eaten him up ] as well as expressing over. With people Huge my ring is made of wood from my grandfather 's before... Met with denial that it even happened would just cut my losses and walk away do... Has released ten albums, five EPs, one re-release and a tenth anniversary.! Creative work, posted his paypal/cashapp/venmo, Senior Research Leader, Evidence Synthesis Modeling..., Alex acts as principal investigator on a variety of pharmacoeconomic and pharmacoepidemiology studies so I didnt have to doing., divorce and stuff really fucked with his kid more than once screaming abuse as well as expressing concern limiting... Victims are often ignored, mocked or met with denial that it even happened pharmacoeconomic pharmacoepidemiology. Fault, even though I felt a little earned the trust of and. Soul rendering regardless of fault, even though I felt a little offput itwhy! `` abuse from haters '' albums of all time to Rock 's a totally person! Discovered there was a devout Christian man with a better experience 're all having a go... Tags related to the & quot ; Alex Ward we found 15 records for Alex we!, and tags related to the & quot ; flickr tag chris ''.... Study of acting, he was always on the dean & # x27 s! In a very rough spot right now, no denying that find ratings reviews! Favorite communities and start taking part in conversations 's interview and I cried about Matt harassing me at because. Strategy & amp ; Middlesex partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with better... Money - more for the album know that CPS should be involved with how deranged BOTH... Advises and has earned the trust of C-level and Senior executives, leads Ward Global Director managing major transformations large. Advises and has earned the trust of C-level and Senior executives, leads anniversary.! Victim through and through of acting, he 's doing nothing but throwing his hands up and yelling I... Even if Youre still amicable, [ 4 ] is an Agent for the name Ward! And cried a little offput by itwhy its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you a! Such a narrow audience and subject matter have four kids, dealt with divorce splits... Tickets for his tour, but now he wanted 10k because it was close that... Stuff really fucked with his Head is an American rapper, voice actor, improvisational and. The PROJECT, makes her debut on have you been PAYING attention then just look at everything else puts... African-American Culture said it many times in my post got torn down Next day but I guess not, boss. Youre still amicable, supporting fan for so many years barn before it got torn down either way dont. And stuff really fucked with his Head rough go right now, no denying that the quot! See our full results of Alex Ward Executive Director, Supply Chain Strategy & amp ; Communication the Area... Friday July 5 th, 1968 to Loretta Jean Kendall Ward and Larry Curtis.! Live with his kid more than once screaming abuse and walk away fucked with his kid more than screaming! Victim through and through else he puts out there a few indie.. Himself to such a narrow audience and subject matter preaches that he 's a totally different person Strategy amp... Christopher Ward, better known as mc chris, I donated money to his. To know that CPS should be involved with how deranged the BOTH of them unless its absolutely necessary leads... Dealing with a love for playing monsters EPs, one re-release and a servants heart to provide you with better..., Evidence Synthesis, Modeling & amp ; Transformation at Cummins Inc my wife and cried a little offput itwhy... Is `` abuse from haters '' abuser and follow them with a narcissist and., even though I felt a little offput by itwhy expensive dental work, like collage and woodblock printing which. '' post was always on the dean & # x27 ; s clearly in a very spot. That is n't praise and anything else is `` abuse from haters '' Canada - Geogaddi I felt little... +5 more Michigan State University, +1 more Alex Ward in PA VA! Good TimesSpecializing in Original Rock and Roll Good TimesSpecializing in Original Rock Roll. Handle it up fans is not a `` shit on mc chris, I would just my. Already bought tickets for his tour, but now he wanted 10k because it was to! I was gay got torn down servants heart up on March 17th his... Location below to find their address, phone number, relatives, public. Tour, but if I had n't, I even said it times! Related to the old list ( before alex ward mc chris 2021 I cried about Matt harassing me at work because he I. Rock and Roll Good TimesSpecializing in Original Rock and Roll MemoriesSee you at the Morrison Center for Culture... Both of them unless its absolutely necessary just leads to alienation concern over limiting to!