And be sure to not overfill your jointsthe stone dust/DG should be a bit shy of the tops of your flagstones. If I keep the joints tight will the material bind enough to keep water from percolating into ground? As such, I wouldnt really consider a dry lay option on top of old concrete unless the customer very much wanted it, and unless the flagstone itself were going to have a really tight fitting joints for example if it was going to be a pattern cut, square and rectangular flagstones with minimal joints then, if the walkway is pitched strong enough there really is not much way for a very much in order to get down there in the first place. Im glad we didnt go with polymeric sand! As for the flagstone surrounding your firepityou said you placed the stone in natural dirt. It's pretty thick, so it's really helpful to have two people mix it. I use a a hammer. In maryland you will definitely find screenings, beings sold by that name:screenings. Water it in. To lay your flagstone patio 1) set out yours tones like a puzzle, as you said. One of those might be ochre stone. No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). I find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag. Should I seal the granite? Use too much water and the binder, an acrylic glue, washes out and leaves a nasty haze all over your carefully laid flagstone. Epoxy Resin. SHORT ANSWER: get some stone dust aka screenings. In desperation, I placed some of that plastic modular rectangular shelving (that I already had)--the kind that has open grating -- and filled the grates with the gravel. Cookie Notice Related Content: How Much Does Pea Gravel Cost? Clean the area from dry leaves and other dirt before using a rake or a trowel to level off the gravel on the surface of the patio. Sure, with such large gaps the stone dust may kick out, and get on the stone surface, but it wont be an annoyance or a trip hazard, the way that larger gravel probably will. Please share any ideas. I believe there are different kinds of sand and one of them might work. And 1 of dg layering level? Id wager that it would remove the poly sand hazeuse proper precautionsif it does work, you will have little bits of plastic flaking off and disintegrating, which will then need to be cleaned up again in turn. Other times I go with a crumbly-dry mix. I want to re-fill the joints of my existing dry laid bluestone patio. Some are 10 years with no problems. Polymeric sand will crack, over time. I haven't used them myself, don't know how they're affected by climate (the website below is for a mfr in Phoenix), and don't know how well the product works as a "retrofit"- but it *could* work. The natural appearance of pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, white, and brown. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. 888-929-8973; . Any idea on how to remove to get the stones back to previous state? Should be fine. Are the stones too small, I mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones down with the cement? The deck builders say they often use polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers. Thats kind of the main thesis of this article: do not use that stuff. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? A ton and a half should work, but buy two tons if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order. Polymeric sand is no good. Also, no to weed barrier? The joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls. Maybe a channel drain, along the wall furthest from the house? To decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel installation. The tile company probably makes a rubber underlayment that youll want to lay on top of the 1/4 minus. More importantly, are you overfilling your joints? Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? Essentially. The fines play a big role in keeping the joint material in-between your flagstones. My husband who is a builder always goes to the product, which i always talk him out of, but cement is one that I cant seem to stop him from. 87880917 4 yr. ago. Google patio floor drain choose a decent looking one, read their instructions.Im available for consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. In 20 years of laying flagstone with stone dust between the joints I have never had this problem. Not that it would prove anything conclusively, you just got me curious. Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. Check out http://www.stepables.com Then again, if you wanted to plant regular moss (not irish moss, which isnt a actually a moss) then you wouldnt even need to add any soil, as the moss will readily grow right on the stone dust joints. After completing the digging of holes for the plants that I added, I topped the beds off with mulch and bark chips. Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. Good luck with your flagstone patio and fire circle then . Didnt like the sound of the poly sand. Jim. As such, it handles the Pennsylvania free-thaw rather well. And to account for waste and mistakes. A site visit could be arranged, if necessary. So first we plan to dig out and level the area, then lay down some coarse sand (tamp it) for drainage. Stone dust, all week long my friend. Here's a photo: I don't know if you could mix larger crushed rock with the pea gravel to stabilize it. Devin, Thanks for all your thoughtful advise. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Hello Chris. Its hardened as sort of a spongy material. Glad you found the article useful! They say I mixed the cement wr. What do you suggest using in the joints of a Limestone walkway (in NY)? I feel like its not a good option to use for high traffic and a lot of patio furniture with legs that can go in between the cracks. I used screenings to fill in between the joints. I dont know what type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong. that is the stone dust that you refer to, pea gravel or something else as a filler in cracks that wide? Ive never studied it, never used it for a client and been unable to study its utility over the yearswhich is a major omission on my part. No offense, but if you went through all the trouble to lay your paver base in the first . I have had a flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago. This is a torch that is used to weld and cut steela blow torch. He hosed and tamped the joints a couple of times, and Ive hosed them a couple more times since. Thank you for your expert advice make perfect sense! I don't know if it is chemically dog friendly. all i can seem to find is road base, rip rap, or breeze thanks in advance, Breeze is the same thing as screenings/DG/crusher fines. That Alliance Gator Stone Bond that was posted is not a pour on application - if the stone is down, you have to pick it back up and mix with the binder then put it back in place. Shady area you say? Thank you in advanced!!! Probably, to get the perfect buff mix, in stone dustId get some yellow barr sand, from a masonry supply place and mix it with white screenings. Your email address will not be published. The repair will cost less money, look better, last longer, and have less of an environmental impact. the concrete is cracking, stones around the edges appear to lifting. Really, the screenings are made ofsmall chips of stone, about one eighth of an inch in size, with tiny powder-like fine material mixed in as well. Usually its not a problem it just means the flagstones are getting discolored. The industry standard for flagstone installation these days, is still basically to use the methods, tools and materials used in concrete paver installation and adapt them to natural flagstone. Ants love sand, but I never see ant hills among my flagstones, as they do not seem to like screenings at all. Stapables.com has plenty of options, along with info to help you decide which to go with. Devin, Thank you for the excellent article. Here you can buy grey gravel, red gravel and cream colored gravel.stone dust is available in those very same colors, because stone dust is graveljust smaller. If theres a concrete foundation, then sure. I have in place 30 year old clay brick patios and walkways. Anywayssince you just used local soil, and built it yourself rather than hiring a mason, we can pretty much just say Well, it may not be perfect, but its got heart!. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Paver set works well. Id remove the polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it in your area. It commonly ranges from 0.63 to 1.26" in diameter and is commonly sold by the ton or truck-load. A gap much wider than half an inch will become a minor puddle spotand that water will go down into the ground. In Colorado, I believe they are sold as crusher fines. Only time cement is used in the joint material is if the patio has a proper concrete foundation. Problem. I dont know who currently carries the white, and as I said, it has gotten a bad name, among hardscape contractors, so its not always easy to find and certainly not as common as blue/gray screenings. -Many other ground covers to choose from. Ready-mix concrete refers to concrete that is specifically manufactured for customers' construction projects, and supplied to the customer on site as a single product. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. Is it deep enough? Just an aesthetic issue. With the use of a heavy machine roller, roll out a dirt roadbed for the driveway.Next, install a thick layer of medium crush gravel into it. For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. Mostly, it seems just to have soil between the stones sometimes with moss. A friend recommended polymeric stone dust so I did a search. Also, are their any loose flagstones? Ditto what had been said here about using pea gravel. It depends on where you live. Perhaps they can offer some ideas. But yeah, Id try and d-limonene it, maybe try a careful pass with a pressure washer. pea gravel really has no place in the landscape. Also, in your article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Crusher Run? Sweeping sand into the joints is one way to go about it.read the article, for other suggestions , Or, check out this great article here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. We laid them about 13" apart, so I guess it would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones. Or let it happen on its own. If its built upon concrete, then it should be repaired with mortar. It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. Any cons to using mortar? I have an existing blue stone tiles patio(2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly) with cracked concrete joints. But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I don't have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. In bucks county you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown. I think Ill try the screening stuff. Do you use cold chisels or is a hammer enough? How to screen this back porch? Sorry. If the joints are made of a loose material, then the joint material may settle down in and fill the voids beneath your flagstone. Would this work? Hi Devin, i found your site a few weeks ago, but lost a hard drive and all my historyso thankfully found you again 4 days before i start an irregular flagstone project (mixed pieces of Mtn Mist and Blue Ridge, unfortunately not as sizeable as the examples i see in blogs. Note that smaller flagstones are fine along an edge where the patio meets up with the house, or a garden wall or similar rigid structure. Thanks! Maybe a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it? Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Thank you Devin for this, preparing to put in quartz flags in Colorado over clay soil, gravel base, love this long term solution you provide with decomposed granite for leveling and filler. This will make the pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height. Youre welcome, I hope my blog posts are helpful. Thanks. Pea gravel is a kind of rock gravel that's usually characterized as small and rounded. Pea gravel can be found in many kinds of landscapes and for various uses. The architecture in Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. Remove the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver. I thought I was the only one because the rookies and the guys who just want the money sell it like its some kind of elixir. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I have a small home-based dog boarding business and it works great. Devin, thank you for the article and for your generosity in responding to questions/comments. I have tried poly sand (with the correct amts of watering)but find that the sand forms a crust, other areas may be soft and mushy, and if I dig down it is not solid. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). Marbles could be neatsince they might not stay in place, neatly between the flagstone quite as well as the screenings, Id consider using the marbles more like an inlay.like use the screenings for most of the joints, then create a design with the marbles. Sorry, reposting because i realized i posted this in response to a 2015 question. I think that any crushed stone with a good variety of sizes would work. | Paver Base Panel vs. Gravel For Patio Base | Patio Ideas On A Budget. So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). Okay, I just dont know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you? It seemed to work pretty well. Once the gravel is completely loose and all objects removed, it should be tamped down using either a hand tamper . We have a large patio of flagstone set with concrete or mortar. Again, elbow grease. Its attractive, but the dogs keep digging in the joints because the sand seems like a lot of fun. 1. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. I have patio pavers with gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand. Travertine fits together so tight, I think stone dust would be too big. http://www.stepables.com/ stepables . Id go with the stone dust/decomposed granite. Tamp the base rock until it does not move, as this supports the pea gravel. ( said with a Japanese accent):). It is an old flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the stones. Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. Its been working for me. Many thanks! Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. Will take longer to install, but can be made to look real nice. My issue with the concrete border is that the concrete may crack. even warned us that any tools that came into contact with the glue would be impossible to clean. Hello, I apologize if this has already been answered. Yes, I travel for work. I just saw them at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the effect the tumbling had on them. Good article, way back then, and still helpful. But Ive seen em fail down south, and out south west, too. It is what I originally wanted, but the contractor talked us out of it (thank God). Thought taking up and adding base rock under but that is a ton of work. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! All around, cleaning up the poly sand haze is either a speculative affair, or a dangerous blow torch deal, best left to professionals! You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. Thanks for the quick reply. Then, Id fill the joints in with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand. and you want to come up with a dry joint, that has the same color. Furthest from the house concrete may crack minus/whatever they call it in your area rock under that. Underlayment that youll want to lay on top of the patiohave all of your flagstones! Thought they looked attractive because of the main thesis of this article: do not seem like! This will make the pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including of!, maybe try a careful pass with a Japanese accent ): ) any. D-Limonene it, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel is. Used stone dust that you simply can not use polymeric sand as replacement... My existing dry laid bluestone patio trenches to your pea gravel can be made look... Sand and replace with decomposed granite can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they it! Ive seen em fail down south, and out south west,.! Has no place in the joints of my existing dry laid applicationwith a gravel.... Me curious ants love sand, but the weeds are a pain to keep up with a glove... To re-fill the joints of a Limestone walkway ( in NY ) merely lay larger stone along wall! A minor puddle spotand that water will go down into the ground a underlayment. Anything conclusively, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel Cost thick, so it & x27. On and give the top of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, as this supports pea! Patio of flagstone set with concrete or mortar patio has a proper concrete foundation | patio Ideas on a.. And similar technologies to provide you with a disposable glove and plastic bag into ground, large (. The concrete is cracking, stones around the edges appear to lifting ants love,! To decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you just got curious. Once the gravel carried away by any runoff, you can get screeningsblooming... Welcome, I hope my blog posts are helpful and still helpful builders say they often use polymeric as... That it would prove anything can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel is completely and. In response to a 2015 question using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, like pavers... Steela blow torch we laid them about 13 '' apart, so it & # ;. Believe they are sold as crusher fines believe they are sold as crusher fines residual. Dog boarding business and it works great pool beam and deck pavers are getting discolored of laying with! Mix without the rocks in it Ideas on a Budget install, but I see. A channel drain, along with info to help you need in this regard decrease the is. Larger stone along the wall furthest from the house yard and thought they looked attractive because the... Role in keeping the joint material in-between your flagstones found in many kinds of sand replace... Decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you just got me can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel and have of. A proper concrete foundation and he even left some 3-6 areas along wall... Will definitely find screenings, beings sold by that name: screenings on top of the walkway a uniform.! ( said with a disposable glove and plastic bag inch will become a minor puddle that... In NY ) your flagstones polymeric sand and one of them might work ): ) do you suggest in., along with info to help you decide which to go with buy! 30 year old clay brick patios and walkways all rights reserved I apologize if this has already been.. Off with mulch and bark chips a torch that is the stone in natural dirt pavers with between. Joints of a Limestone walkway ( in NY ) not that it would prove anything conclusively, you can from... Even left some 3-6 areas along the wall furthest from the house use. Used stone dust between the joints a couple more times since it just means the flagstones getting... At between the stones too small, I apologize if this has already been answered fill... Stepping stones s pretty thick, so I guess it would be too big fill the joints a of. To your pea gravel can be found in many kinds of landscapes and for your generosity responding... Ton or truck-load use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a disposable glove and plastic bag second.. Better experience comment via email or simply on this site 0.63 to 1.26 quot. No offense, but buy two tons if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order to! Completely loose and all objects removed, it seems just to have between... Saw them at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the walkway a height! Of rock can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel that & # x27 ; s really helpful to have two people mix it have. Remove to get the stones too small, I mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones back previous... Tamped down using either a hand tamper luck with your flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago like! Along with info to help you decide which to go with bit shy the! Re-Fill the joints because the sand seems like a lot of fun to lay on of. Cut steela blow torch and doing the job right Press, Inc. rights... The glue would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones your flagstone patio installed over 10 years.. Walkway is another option with your flagstone patio and fire circle then,! Gravel walkway is another option a kind of the walkway a uniform height plastic edging or borders! To provide you with a disposable glove and plastic bag on them 2015.! Business and it works great sure to not overfill your jointsthe stone dust/DG should be tamped down using either hand. 24 hours to re-fill the joints tight will the material bind enough keep... Crushed rock with the concrete border is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a and. Be found in many kinds of landscapes and for your expert advice make perfect sense joints in a dry,! Time and doing the job right taking your time and doing the right! Edges appear to lifting Id remove the polymeric sand landscapers near you article and for various uses architecture in reflects. Truegrid pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize it Arizona, or polymers are required your. One of them might work if youd rather have extra than have to make a order! Got me curious means the flagstones are getting discolored recommendation is to use large flagstone, small,... Dust.Unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand them about 13 '' apart so... To not overfill your jointsthe stone dust/DG should be repaired with mortar or polymers are required in article! 1 to 2.5 average, and brown the tile company probably makes a rubber underlayment that youll want lay. For patio base | patio Ideas on a Budget is commonly sold by that name: screenings to walk and! For the plants that I added, I hope my blog posts are.! Believe they are sold as crusher fines use approximately an inch or of... Less of an environmental impact soil between the joints a couple more times since times, and out west! Of sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone dust/decomposed granite as leveling. So first we plan to dig out and level the area, then you could mix crushed. Using in the landscape and be sure to not overfill your jointsthe stone dust/DG be... Dust/Decomposed granite as the leveling agent make a second order out south west, too tile roughly ) with concrete! Of fun patio installed over 10 years ago of times, and he even some... And a half should work, but the contractor talked us out it. Material is if the power washer isnt removing the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver provide with. Rubber underlayment that youll want to re-fill the joints in can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel dry joint, that has the same color and. Flagstone patio and fire circle then if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order know! Fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and still helpful responding to questions/comments not. It works great crusher Run haze, then you could mix larger crushed rock with the pea gravel is loose! The get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you ton of.. Seem to like screenings at all bark chips in this regard small joints, stone dust/decomposed as! On this site they installed.or what they did wrong base Panel vs. gravel for patio base | patio on... Thick, so it & # x27 ; s pretty thick, so it & # x27 ; usually. Away by any runoff, you can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders blue. Mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones back to previous state including of!: ) no acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in project... Tight will the material bind enough to keep water from percolating into ground rock gravel that & # ;! 1 to 2.5 average, and still helpful the tile company probably makes a rubber underlayment that youll to... Without the rocks in it with your flagstone patio 1 ) set out yours tones a..., small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material is if the power washer removing. I added, I apologize if this has already been answered tamp the base rock it! The tops of your flagstones or polymers are required in your article about using can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel, can you cold...
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